Posted by Elijah on April 27, 2012 at 10:01:20:
In Reply to: Apologetics posted by Richard Smit on April 23, 2012 at 08:38:04:
First let me applaud you Mr. Smit for your inclusion of a very well written and beautifully displayed group of points. Though these thoughts are not your own per se, you obviously endorse this person’s views and this website’s views based on your suggestion to participants of this site to read the article.
The majority of the information that can be held as spiritually progressive are those parts of the article which are true and that entail the most historical information. The general summaries and events described in this article are, for the most part, pretty accurate. However, the biased presentation, and continued misinterpretations leave incompletion of a bigger picture and continual behavior of : (in the word’s of Mr. Smit, lol)
“You seem to have forgotten, that when you point your accusing index figure at others, three of your own fingers, are pointing right back at you.”
As I will demonstrate in my critique of the article, I will further expose similarities and give you a bridge to:
“cross over the shaky egotistic anger bridge, and come to Christ on the loving friendship shore, lololol”
Don’t make the same mistakes of many idolized interpretations of our Bible, as many of our Muslim and Jewish brothers have interdependently done for centuries. Learn from the same mistakes made by the Nation of Islam as well as the plethora of two fold man made views that have existed alongside truth. The first fold lies in misinterpretations and misunderstandings from the scholarly aspect which occur because of “ordained” men distracted and the infliction upon the “poor” and historically proven inequality of education between classes of men. For example, a westernized individual that opens the Quaran without understanding the history and culture of that time may misinterpret subjects and laws discussed, much so the same in the Bible. Whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, a person that was raised in that religion can study their history and see the changes and modifications of that religion. I suggest that men look past men and foundate themselves to the scriptures and from there, one can discern using intelligence ( as the scriptures teach us to do).
The second fold lies in the actual application of what is realized when a person sees the light in the scriptures. Once a realization is made to person’s mind they still must mix the NEW person they have become into the VERY distracting world we live in. Sometimes this requires going along a road traveled by few in todays society.
I am excited that another site has been researched by you Mr. Smit, because I hope that many others are led to the gifts made available by Ms. Janson, her website, and it’s participants.
My first aspect of celebration comes from the fact that you know of the works of two of some of my favorite speakers. Malcolm X (especially after his growth from MECCA) and Dr. Cornel West (whom I pray I have the chance of meeting one day, and also I wish to meet you guys on this site,lol)
I hope the implied intent of Mr. Smit was to further prove some points I have brought up and not to imply that I speak from a position of the "angry black man",lol (based on a random article on extremist black Muslims in America, like that changes the love and tolerance of the Quaran) which would reduce my cause to a simplistic minor form of revolution spawned from the sores of our (notice I said our) enslaved African ancestors. That is well known history for the disgrace that occurred in human history but, the fact that it occurred is a point that I wish to examine deeper. Furthermore, the sensational outcome of breed that has formed upon the face of this earth. From a genetic aspect a pure strand was transplanted by the technology and intelligence of the time. This group of people has been removed from their then home, taken to a new world, new beginning and then must endure seeing their children taken. Generationally intelligent human beings were influenced to believe sub human rationale and then a society was molded INTENTIONALLY to keep groups of people under certain territories and under common influences whether it be by audio, digestive, injestive, terrorism, violence or by artistic cyclic programs combined into the technological contraptions which react with the programs to create datalogs of grouping status’s. With all of the physical groupings and separation that we have in the world today its easy to see how the GOAL OF THE SPIRITUAL ENEMIES, MAN IS SUBCONSCIOUSLY INVOLVED WITH, IS TO KEEP MEN DISTRACTED FROM GOD, DISTRACTED FROM LOVING EACHTOHER. BY KEEPING PEOPLE UNEDUCATED OF EACHOTHER THEY ARE IGNORANT TO THE TRUE DIVINE INTERPRETATIONS OF DIVINE MESSAGES, THEREFORE CHRIST IS NEVER TRULY REACHED IN ANY RELIGION AS LONG AS LOVE OF GOD DOESN’T BRING YOU TO LEARN TO LOVE AND JUDGE NOT ALL of GODS CREATIONS.
I don’t know about the reader but, that resembles the cases cycled through much of the world over the years as done by most cultures and races as soon as the beast is allowed to intervene with the message to man.
The short comings of all false prophecy is that it fails to make the needed connections mentally and spiritually.
Im a realist in the sense that I try to see things from not just my own perspective. I very much so agree with the implied thought that many people in America (of all races and religions) are still mentally enslaved but, I dare to enlighten you upon a spiritual way of looking at it, much in the same as your description of Jesus. I totally agree that the focus of Jesus is not the color of his skin. My point in even addressing the color of his skin is to reveal the lies told for centuries in regards to his skin tone. I could care less if a group of people wants to worhship a blond haired blue eyed Jesus, if they actually follow his teachings and believed what he said and did. ( i would actually love it, if the people focused more on his example than his physical traits)
BUT I WILL NOT STAND BY AND WATCH THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE SIMILAR TRAITS AND GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION IN HISTORY OF WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT THE MESSIAH AS THEY ARE RIDICULED AND MISLED IN SOCIETY TO THINKING THAT THEY ARE LESS THAN THEIR WHITE BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHILE SHARING PHYSICAL TRAITS WITH THOSE CHOSEN BY GOD TO TRANSFIGURE JESUS. FURTHERMORE I REFUSE TO HAVE A WHITE CHILD BORN INTO THE THINKING THAT THEY BELONG TO A RACE OF BEASTS BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF THEIR ANCESTORS. I WOULD HAVE ALL RACES AND ABRAHAMIC FAITHS TO SEE THAT WE ALL HAVE MESSED UP AT INTERVALS THE LOVE THAT EXISTS FROM NOT ONLY THEIR COLORED (WHITE, BLACK, INDIAN, ASIAN, LATINO) BROTHERS AND SISTERS BUT, THEIR AFRICAN ANCESTORS AS WELL.
What I like about your article is that it exposes that the Nation of Islam is a form of extremism which stretches far from the logic and teachings in the Quaran. Second, what you unknowingly have opened is a can of worms because now we can see that what brought about the extremist logic of Nation of Islam (in this case in America) actually spawned from extremist Christianity which at this point had implemented for hundreds of years all over the world.
I love the fact that you took the discussion this direction Mr. Smit not just because Im a young black American, but (pulling the magnifying glass out) I can now share with all of you a correlation I have seen for quite some time but, have shared with very few.
When analyzing the relationship between Man and God, I think a good comparative analysis is to study the story of the African Men and Women who were enslaved and taken to the US. The "so-called black history month" that the negative spirits use to keep separated into a month is really an accelerated history of mankind.
The separation of slaves from their home in Africa is similar to the uprooting of mankind as man was thrown out of the garden of Eden in Africa. At this point man was placed “in the jungle” and our intelligence, the very thing you guys use on this site with your discoveries, is what we had to rely on. Now we have the example of Jesus, and lessons and guidance from a plethora of prophets. Each one of those individuals who you may find spiritual incline underwent a form of prejudice for their ideas and way of thought in order for change to occur. They all felt the similar prejudices our African- American ancestors experienced as they fought and martyred for change just for being born a different look. Similar to the many martyrs of Christians through history there have been many Muslims martyrs as well as Jewish martyrs. As much as the Nation of Islam has done for people in America mentally and physically it lacks Quaranic foundation which is why people were so misled. In todays society, at least in the ghettos and prison system the image of Islam goes up and down the like stock market as the religion is used as a way of identity, used as a form of protection and ganglife in the prisons. On a lighter note the religion serves as a constant motivation of change for millions of Americans. Socially I find the same residue that I find in all religions, more specifically, in Abrahamic faiths. This residue I speak of is denounced by Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, and many prophets and what I am referring to is the worshiping of your father’s religion.
I now wish to bring in some quotes from a Book titled “The Place of Tolerance in Islam” by Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl.
The first quote I wish to share is spoken on in wake of the 9/11 terrorist attack in New York City:
“The terrorist attacks are symptomatic of a clash between Judeo-Christian civilization, with its values of individual freedom, pluralism, and secularism, and an amoral, un- Westernized, so-called “authentic Islam.”Indeed , Islamic civilization is associated with the ideas of collective rights, individual duties, legalism, despotism, and intolerance that we associated with our former civilizational rival, the Soviet bloc. We seem to project onto the other everything we like to think that we are not.” (Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl,3)
Elijah-This shows the similar signs shared by many nations of history that “point the finger at others, while contradicting their own religion in order to pursue political, and financial comfort.
Speaking of Muslim extremism Dr. Fadl shares:
“Militant puritan groups are both introverted and extroverted- they attempt to assert power against both Muslims and non-Muslims. As populist movements, they are a reaction to the disempowerment most Muslims have suffered in the modern age at the hands of harshly despotic governments, and at the hands of interventionist foreign powers. These groups compensate for extreme feelings of disempowerment by extreme and vulgar claims to power. Fueled by supremacist and puritan theological creeds, their symbolic acts of power become uncompromisingly fanatic and violent” (Dr. Fadl, 11)
Elijah- These observations on Islam match the challenges faced by mankind and the Africans who through the breeding process forgot their identity. While the spiritual effort is ever clear to make men forget their own identity by controlling the education made available to commonfolk, Dr. Fadl also uncovers the cold reality of the breaking point when a man is oppressed and bullied to the point that embracing the “BEAST” has become an adaptation to cope with the hatred and “BESTIAL BEHAVIOR SHARED BY HIS OPPRESSORS”
Elijah- Below are a few other quotes from Dr. Fadl, an academic scholar of westernized proportions as he shares, in my opinion prerequisites of perspective before reading any religious scripture. He also foundates each of the following quotes to his detailed research and daily self-atonement received from Quaranic study
“In Islamic theology, war is never holy; it is either justified or not, and if it is justified, those killed in battle are considered martyrs” (Dr. Fadl,19)
“Mandated is the law of equality, so that who transgresses against you, respond in kind, and fear God, and know that God is with those who exercise restraint.” (Quaran,13) (sounds a lot like Jesus to me!!!)
“The meaning of the text is often only as moral as it’s reader. If the reader is intolerant, hateful, or oppressive, so will be the interpretation of the text( Dr. Fadl, 23)
In critique of Dr. Fadl Mr. Sohail Hashmi added a comment directed towards Muslims but, I think fits the Quaran and the Bible, as well as racism worldwide (replace the titles with your own, since you gave them to yourselves anyway, Muslim is just Arabic for one who submits to God, last I checked I thought we all were supposed to do that,lol:
“If contemporary Muslims are to realize the full “blessings” of the Quaran’s spirit, as El Fadl urges, they must face up to the full “burden” of their political and intellectual history.” (Hashmi, 32)
Mr Tariq Ali further critiques Dr Fadl and gives insight on similar acts of extremism seen in other religions and societies:
“ Priests and ministers have often provided “divine sanction” for wars, colonization, and imperial missions. Rabbis and mullahs are no different. Nor are their followers. The fanatical Jewish settlers in Palestinian lands ( European jewish settlers that were relocated after the World War) and the followers of Al- Qaeda have much in common. Comparative histories of the three monotheisms are far more useful in this regard than theology.” (Ali, 37)
“The Quaran was used as a reference (against the instructions of the Quaran), but, traditions had to be invented to facilitate Muslim rule in different parts of the world. As with the Talmud, rival Muslim scholars in the pay of rival rulers or factions could interpret a Qur’anic verse in different ways.”
Elijah- the disgrace of God’s word, divine presence in all we do and see, is constantly slandered today by commonfolk approaching the word with a man made bias. This evidently is nothing new as this was common in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam as cycles took place to demean the intent of each in order to preserve the distracting “BEAST” that was to snatch our childrens minds.
Below is a quote addressing the modern day Muslim extremists and the logic used can apply to all forms of extremism whether religious or racist, or sexist.
“I see no point in debating with Islamic extremists on whose interpretation is correct. To do so is to play on their battlefield. The real question is why Bin Laden and his gang turned against their former patrons. The answer has very little to do with religion, but a great deal to do with history and politics. Because the causes are political, not religious, the solution has to be political, not military or civilizational. If, the members of al-qaeda are “Islamofasicists”, then one has to ask: when did they become Islamofascists? Their religious views have not altered since the time they were recruited by the United States, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt for the “jihad” against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Were they Islamo-fascists when President Carter’s envoy, Zbigniew Brzezinski, stood on the Pak-Afghan border and told the bearded assembly: “GOD IS ON YOUR SIDE!!!”, or did the transformation take place after September 11?” (Ali,39)
Sounds to me like the president of the United States, a so-called Chritian believes in the same Allah as his Muslim brothers, or perhaps, as his choices display, he shouts the name of God while his faith lied in these Islamic extremists to kill for political comfort of a national superpower.
“Where ever we look, it becomes clear that the Quaran is not the problem, but the interests of various Western states are (including many black Americans as your article disclosed) “ (Ali, 40)
In Mr. Abid Ullah Jan’s critique of Dr. Fadl he shares:
“As far as the limits of tolerance are concerned, the frustration of Muslims around the world is not a consequence of faulty interpretations of Islam but of an inability to tolerate continued Western double standards and the treatment of Muslims as second-class citizens of the planet.” (Jan, 45)
Elijah- I feel that the uprising of black Muslims was an effect of a people finding balance between oppression and yearning for truth .
“Islam is still uncommonly tolerant of other peoples and religions. Why doesn’t anyone talk about a crisis of tolerance in Judaism when dozens of the Palestinians have been killed on a weekly basis for the last thirty-five years? Why is the media silent about intolerant Hinduism that has relentlessly oppressed Kashmiri Muslims for the last fifty- five years? Why didn’t the analysts speculate about the intolerance in Christianity when 300,000 Muslims were butchered in Bosnia? And why not now, as Muslims face the wrath of Russians in Chechnya?” ( Jan,46)
“ The burden of sustaining the limits of tolerance in Islam falls squarely on the shoulders of the giants who trample on the rights of Muslims.”
“Islam simply happens to be the religion of the oppressed and those fighting for their rights in the absence of all political options.” ( this quote speaks for peoples of many backgrounds and Jewish/ Christian/Muslim” ( Jan,49)